Hi,

lowguard - fine

hard fighting I think is not the problem if it is fair and everyone regards the rules - then it makes fun.

And we know thats not easy in every situation. And there are driver they try to ignore them often and there are driver they try to remember them most of time or all of the time. The last group should be the target on the ABB ...

rdjango

hayman3030 schrieb:
CasparGTL schrieb:
byagm wrote:
The thing in all of this by my point of view is: Is this for real?
somebody pointing me out through a TS personal message without watching any replay. (comments on cold are better Mr."somebody" you know it.)
Other one threatening me like a chav.
Other one agreeing with first one without watching any replay.

Me and my partners are having collisions from other people everyday.

Whats the difference? We dont speak deustche for being on TS to say a fast "hey I stopped braking", "carefull I I´m managing to lap you".

Whats the other difference? We dont want to lose too much time telling Mr X has push (as last 5 races) and hasnt wait (like last 5 races). Or Mr X hasnt brake the car on lap 1 and sent me from pos.6 to 31. Or Mr X is pushing Mr X car constantly in the oval race. Or restart race only happens when... who knows. Or X doesnt let me overtake instead of having +1 lap, but I let the car behind me easily.
Or X called me Idio (and after wrote a T) and nothing happened because he´s a "protected". Or... ?

Why we´re not like that? why we are not in forum after each race? because we dont know deustche and english its difficult to express ourselves clearly? No, that´s not the reason. I´ll tell you all why. Because This is a game, not a job, not real live (but sometimes it seems to be for some).

Sometimes we write to try to make better future races solving problems.

This post is not accusation, its kinda mind opener.

See you in game.ok, i'm out of the discussion. Too many things dragged into it that have nothing to do with what happened last night, gets all fuzzy that way.

Hi Caspar

that´s not ok, to get out because of things dragged in which have nothing to do with race.
According to my experiences ( I´m not in TS) I know that you get a image very fast when every action is commented in TS, everyone hears it, but youself can´t give comment. And nobody does look the replay later, to see the bad action of f.ex. hayman. So everybody believes what he hear´s in TS about bad driver. And keeps it in mind, forever...............
The other aspect is: In TS you communicate, say things like "let me pass" "go right" "carefully, I´m on right side in your mirror deadspot", so this makes driving more save for you, you dont have to be afraid.
But with a driver in front or beside or behind you, which does not use TS you cant communicate, that´s the point where you get unsure and afraid, I noticed this often, even with "aliens" here. Now race instinct is needed, not TS. And maybe now a hairy situation will come, and this will be commented in TS, and you can be sure, that in this case the opponent is the one, who did the mistake. Did you ever say in TS: "oops, i just smashed someone into gras?" No, it´s better no one see´s and hears.....................
But in real race it´s like that: you can communicate with your opponent.

What about a race in which TS is not allowed.
That would be a great chance to learn something new: real racing..............

edit: I´m looking forward to this special race

Greets hayman/Wolfgang

hayman,

There were other things in the post that made me leave but now I'm back.

TS is good but indeed not holy, some ABB don't use it and race well.
At Nogrip I nobody has TS and races are fine, like in real life where you can't tell a driver that you're coming or where you will pass. When I get lapped I just try to make clear with my driving where he can pass, worsk sometimes, sometimes not.

I just had a long PM talk with AGM and it's agreed that no driver is innocent and when one driver gets mentioned a lot he should be looked at and disciplined if needed. Some people have a better reputation than others and some get mentioned a lot in TS, several of them are not in TS, several are. I think as long as we don't single out a driver or a group before investigation has taken place we're ok.

I know what it means to have a bad rep sometimes. I messed up at Helsinki badly years ago and my name was made eventhough I have many years of fair driving before that. I cleaned up and drove many fair races since then and I don't feel I'm a bad guy now so that's fine. I'm sure my name , like any other, gets mentioned sometimes when I'm not there and that's fine.
But my point is, when you try hard to drive clean, a mistake is soon forgotten, like I noticed when I hit helmet twice in 2 races. I was faster and it cost him a lot of time which he had a hard time to recover from and that's frustrating. It doesn't mean I can't fight him any less hard than any other driver but I cleaned up and was careful the next races when I came up behind him on track. I think we're ok now.

CasparGTL wrote:
hayman3030 schrieb:
CasparGTL schrieb:
byagm wrote:
The thing in all of this by my point of view is: Is this for real?
somebody pointing me out through a TS personal message without watching any replay. (comments on cold are better Mr."somebody" you know it.)
Other one threatening me like a chav.
Other one agreeing with first one without watching any replay.

Me and my partners are having collisions from other people everyday.

Whats the difference? We dont speak deustche for being on TS to say a fast "hey I stopped braking", "carefull I I´m managing to lap you".

Whats the other difference? We dont want to lose too much time telling Mr X has push (as last 5 races) and hasnt wait (like last 5 races). Or Mr X hasnt brake the car on lap 1 and sent me from pos.6 to 31. Or Mr X is pushing Mr X car constantly in the oval race. Or restart race only happens when... who knows. Or X doesnt let me overtake instead of having +1 lap, but I let the car behind me easily.
Or X called me Idio (and after wrote a T) and nothing happened because he´s a "protected". Or... ?

Why we´re not like that? why we are not in forum after each race? because we dont know deustche and english its difficult to express ourselves clearly? No, that´s not the reason. I´ll tell you all why. Because This is a game, not a job, not real live (but sometimes it seems to be for some).

Sometimes we write to try to make better future races solving problems.

This post is not accusation, its kinda mind opener.

See you in game.ok, i'm out of the discussion. Too many things dragged into it that have nothing to do with what happened last night, gets all fuzzy that way.

Hi Caspar

that´s not ok, to get out because of things dragged in which have nothing to do with race.
According to my experiences ( I´m not in TS) I know that you get a image very fast when every action is commented in TS, everyone hears it, but youself can´t give comment. And nobody does look the replay later, to see the bad action of f.ex. hayman. So everybody believes what he hear´s in TS about bad driver. And keeps it in mind, forever...............
The other aspect is: In TS you communicate, say things like "let me pass" "go right" "carefully, I´m on right side in your mirror deadspot", so this makes driving more save for you, you dont have to be afraid.
But with a driver in front or beside or behind you, which does not use TS you cant communicate, that´s the point where you get unsure and afraid, I noticed this often, even with "aliens" here. Now race instinct is needed, not TS. And maybe now a hairy situation will come, and this will be commented in TS, and you can be sure, that in this case the opponent is the one, who did the mistake. Did you ever say in TS: "oops, i just smashed someone into gras?" No, it´s better no one see´s and hears.....................
But in real race it´s like that: you can communicate with your opponent.

What about a race in which TS is not allowed.
That would be a great chance to learn something new: real racing..............

edit: I´m looking forward to this special race

Greets hayman/Wolfgang

hayman,

There were other things in the post that made me leave but now I'm back.

TS is good but indeed not holy, some ABB don't use it and race well.
At Nogrip I nobody has TS and races are fine, like in real life where you can't tell a driver that you're coming or where you will pass. When I get lapped I just try to make clear with my driving where he can pass, worsk sometimes, sometimes not.

I just had a long PM talk with AGM and it's agreed that no driver is innocent and when one driver gets mentioned a lot he should be looked at and disciplined if needed. Some people have a better reputation than others and some get mentioned a lot in TS, several of them are not in TS, several are. I think as long as we don't single out a driver or a group before investigation has taken place we're ok.

I know what it means to have a bad rep sometimes. I messed up at Helsinki badly years ago and my name was made eventhough I have many years of fair driving before that. I cleaned up and drove many fair races since then and I don't feel I'm a bad guy now so that's fine. I'm sure my name , like any other, gets mentioned sometimes when I'm not there and that's fine.
But my point is, when you try hard to drive clean, a mistake is soon forgotten, like I noticed when I hit helmet twice in 2 races. I was faster and it cost him a lot of time which he had a hard time to recover from and that's frustrating. It doesn't mean I can't fight him any less hard than any other driver but I cleaned up and was careful the next races when I came up behind him on track. I think we're ok now.

I even didnt knew that I had bad reputation here.
So, Schwiizer has played 11 of 80 races this whole year, but has 2 encounters (encounters doesnt mean disputes), and its enough to make all this mess, just for my "reputation"?
He can insult me, fault respect and threat me assuming a vulgar neighbor fighting like a "cani poligonero" (spanish words, please google images). Another user can speak about our "spanish ass" and call "Idio" (t) in the middle of the race. It seems that acting like a chimpanzee (not telling they are, respect, just acting like) its better reputational than make some touches in race. Not kicks, not thrusts, touches.

Dont you think all that happened on this post has all the line pointing to think that? The people who thinks this post is about touching in race is completely wrong. Its about equality and respect.

Hey, on our TS exist too a "reputation table", it doesnt mean that I act like a spiteful boy when I see "bad reputation" people. On our case "bad reputation" means mess up somebodys race, not touch somebody and consider the end of the earth.

Next time I see "Altbierbudes untouchables" (not literally this time, metaphorically) kicking somebody to the green (not touching, kicking to the green or to the 4th dimension...) I just will consider as unseen mistake that would have been solved in the TS, without a reputation without reprisals of reputation.

It´s not personal, Caspar, you know. But I have to support a "reputational about" when this post has been started by a ... person... calling me asshole, threatening the administrators as if he were two links above me in a community for the simple fact that he speaks German and can be in TS, pretending to want to cause a fictitious fight, and being defended by people who do not bother to know what happened before defending someone from their herd.

Just saying: thanks to all the people acting like a coherent people, informing yourself before comment. Its allways a pleasure to speak with that people. If I do something wrong didnt notice, justify and I´ll put my justified opinion, and on that case, I´ll say sorry.

thanks humans.

...wenn ich eins gelernt hab,in 10 Jahre

hier auf der ABB,schreib oder sag nichts nach

so einen vorfall.Die Wut lässt dich sachen

machen,die du ein Tag später bereust!

Ich war früher auch so!

Heute,spül ich sowas mit einem Whisky runter

und schau ob meine Holde in stimmung ist.

Es ist immer noch ein Spiel!


Schön wärs wenn ihr euch die Hand gebt und

beim nächsten treffen,respektvoll miteinander

umgeht.

...und weiter gehts!


Gruss Wiege

Linus64 schrieb:

...und weiter gehts!

Gruss Wiege


Genau, besser ruhig bleiben !


So wie hier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsR4lNnqs2g


Gruss
Susi

Hi all,

These are the information from the Admins according the many contributions.

1. It is always important to sleep one night instead replying directly in TS, the forum or in the chat.
2. Watch the replay, get the facts and ask the involved racers for information with PM.
3. If you observed an incident, please inform the Admins with server #, event and time stamp. We will look after this.
4. Only(!) the Admins decide about the reputation of a racer.
5. Friendly – together – unforced is mandatory for EVERYBODY and also our rule: If you kick the car in front of you, say sorry and let him pass.

Regards,
ABB Admin team

Hallo zusammen,
nach den vielen Beiträgen hier die Informationen von den Admins.

1. Es ist wichtig, eine Nacht über die Dinge zu schlafen und nicht sofort im TS, Forum oder Chat zu reagieren.
2. Schaut euch die Replays an, holt die Fakten und schickt dem Beteiligten eine PM zur Stellungnahme.
3. Wenn euch etwas aufgefallen ist, meldet den Vorfall an die Admins mit Server-Nr., Event und Zeitstempel. Wir kümmern uns dann darum.
4. Nur(!) die Admins entscheiden über die ‚Reputation‘ eines Fahrers.
5. Freundlich – miteinander – ungezwungen gilt für ALLE, genauso wie die Regel: Schießt du deinen Vordermann ab, sag Sorry und reih dich hinter ihm ein!

Grüße
ABB Admin Team

byagm schrieb:
PD: Mr Caleborn. Did I made something to you? (not rhetoric, I´m really questioning myself...)


Hi byagm,

well, to be honest I got nothing specific to mention. The reason why I replied so soon to Schwiizers Post was simply this: he reacted very upset in TS and disappeared from the race and from TS. Due to the fact that my race was allready over (I crashed by own fault), I had time to check forum and did see his posting. I was afraid that he could really leave ABB, so I wrote what I heard in TS after the race (without mentioning names, or "who said what". I did see that he was still online on the website, so I hoped he would see my reply/answer and he would notice that we allready discuss the incident, what should (watching/analyze Replays, notify the Admins etc.) and could (from writing PM-admonition/-warning up to a penalty/exclusion for maybe 2 weeks).

So my opinion was at least to calm him a bit down and to ensure him, that we immediatly tried to find possible solutiuons.

But now back to your question: Look, I am one of the rather slow drivers here on the ABB, due to the fact that I have a huge lack of track-knowledge. So for me it takes a lot longer to become quick on a track, because the most of them are completely new for me. During the Test-Session I can hardly concentrate on learning the racing-line, brake-points etc. because most of the time I have to watch into the mirrors.
In the last few months I had plenty of chances to notice the common-behaviors of most of the ABB-drivers. Some are patient, some are very ambitious, other ones try to help and guide for one or two laps, some are rather selfish and others just want to have some relaxing fun together.

And most of the ABB-drivers know my Driving-Style now too: whenever I see someone gaining from behind, I´ll do my very best to get out of the way, sometimes even leave the track and risk to loose the car, just to avoid ruining his lap! So most of the other drivers know, that if I don´t leave the racing-line it´s very likely that I havn´t seen him yet or it´s to risky for both if´d change my line. For me (as for most of us) it´s a nice and well proven behaviour to flash the headlights when we let another pass, so he he will be asured, that he can take his line without risking a crash. Sometimes this manouver has to wait two or three corners, there is no need to push like hell.

Well, what poRacer wrote is true (from our point of "Backmarkers"-View), but all in all I think that the very most of our drivers here are really fair and I really enjoy driving and racing with all of you!

Norbert Calenborn wrote:
byagm schrieb:
PD: Mr Caleborn. Did I made something to you? (not rhetoric, I´m really questioning myself...)
Hi byagm,
well, to be honest ...


Although I do not share it, I understand what you did. I know at this point you know, but, please, try to think if you are impairing another user in order to calm another. Remember that the fact that we do not know each other in person doesn`t mean that I am below or above.

About PorRacer post, I think its an offtopic thing in this thread. He just didnt wanted to open a new thread. Now he knows he should.

Thanks for your answer and justification.

Regards.

Norbert Calenborn wrote:


Well, what poRacer wrote is true (from our point of "Backmarkers"-View), but all in all I think that the very most of our drivers here are really fair and I really enjoy driving and racing with all of you![/quote]


I totally agree with you Norbert, it is a pleasure to be able to participate in ABB, the case to which I refer is an isolated and particular case.

Hiho,

ich habe heute von byagm eine PM erhalten, die mich sehr nachdenklich gemacht hat. Ich denke es ist an der Zeit, das wir alle mal den Umgang hier miteinander überdenken! Ich glaub Uwe war es auf der KBB, der dort bei einem Streit im Forum geschrieben hat, "das wir nicht vergessen sollten, das auf der anderen Seite auch ein Mensch sitzt".

Das sollten wir uns alle mal vor Augen führen! Und da nehm ich mich ausdrücklich nicht aus! Wir haben alle das gleiche Hobby, wir versuchen alle miteinander Spaß zu haben und trotzdem kann man gerade im TS manchmal den Eindruck bekommen, das wir Kriegszustand auf der (virtuellen) Rennstrecke haben.

Da wird gemosert und Stimmung gegen immer die gleichen Leute gemacht, jede noch so kleine Aktion wird kommentiert, ob man betroffen ist oder nicht. Auch da muss ich mich öfter mal an die eigene Nase packen... Dazu dann immer wieder kleine Spitzfindigkeiten und Anspielungen, weil man mit den Entscheidungen der Admins und der Art und Weise wie wir das hier handhaben, nicht einverstanden ist. Es soll aber bloß keiner glauben, dass das nicht registriert wird.

Bei all dem wird aber leider immer häufiger vergessen, das wir es hier mit Menschen zu tun haben. Da sollte bei allem momentanen Groll der Respekt füreinander nicht verloren gehen. Gerade auch was den Ton im Chat und im TS angeht! Mea culpa auch hier...

Es sollte auch bitte keiner vergessen, das es gerade für die nicht deutschsprachigen Fahrer viel schwieriger ist, hier im Konfliktfall Gehör zu finden. Es gibt halt die Sprachbarriere, die das nicht einfacher macht.

Aber um auf den konkreten Fall zurückzukommen, die allerwenigsten hier kennen sich persönlich, keiner von uns weiß, ob byagm im Reallife nicht ein toller Kerl ist...vielleicht genauso ein toller Kerl wie es zum Beispiel Reto ist. Nur hat Reto den Sprachvorteil und kann sich dementsprechend im TS äußern und Stellung beziehen.
Diese Möglichkeit hat byagm aber nicht so einfach, ebenso wie seine spanischen Kollegen. Daraus ergibt sich dann aber sehr schnell ein einseitiges Bild was Schuld oder Nichtschuld angeht.

Alle nicht deutschprachigen Fahrer sind aber kein Stück weniger wichtig oder weniger gerne gesehen, als deutsche Fahrer, das wird manchmal schnell vergessen!

Genauso bei Fahrern, die halt nicht im TS sind, aber des deutschen durchaus mächtig wären...auch da ist schnell ein Urteil gefällt und der Ruf ruiniert. Wie es hier ja auch schon angemerkt wurde...

Ich für meinen Teil werde mal alles auf Anfang stellen. Von daher würde ich es sehr begrüßen, wenn es im TS zukünftig anders zugehen würde. Keine Pauschalverurteilungen mehr ("die Spanier" keine Stimmungsmache gegen einzelne Fahrer, kein Einsteigen auf jede noch so kleine Bemerkung wegen eines noch so kleinen Zwischenfalls. Beleidigungen im Chat müssen ebenso nicht sein, immer daran denken, auf der anderen Seite sitzt auch ein Mensch der mit dem gleichen Respekt behandelt werden möchte wie man selbst. Keiner findet es wohl gut, im Chat als Idiot, Archlo... oder schlimmeres bezeichnet zu werden. Und wenn es dann doch Streit gibt, schlaft eine Nacht drüber, guckt Replay und klärt das per PM anstatt im Forum.

Und wer es denn dann doch nicht sein lassen kann, bitte Mikro aus, dann könnt ihr schimpfen ohne Ende...aber halt ohne Publikum! Und ohne damit Meinung zu machen...

Glück auf!

Hey Micha!

YEAH! 1+! Hach, dat tut jut

Ich bin nich im TS, aber ich glaub dran, dass das gut wird. Wir wollen doch nur Spaß haben!

Gruß Wolfgang

Danke Micha.
Reto, mach nen Neustart. Ich fänds doof wenn ihr beide nicht mehr fahrt.

Thx Micha.
Reto, please try a restart. It would be sad to loose anyone here.

no matter what language we speak, we all have to breathe...

Grüsse Patrick

P.S: Kann man den Fred vielleicht zu machen, oder zumindest die Überschrift ändern?

Ok. Micha hat ja Recht. Der Umgang war nicht gerade korrekt.

Ich möchte mich in aller Form bei byAGM entschuldigen für meine Äusserungen! Es tut mir leid dich als A.... bezeichnet zu haben.

Gruss Reto

Hallo zusammen,

wenn ich nur so vor mich hin rede und niemanden beleidige, darf ich dann mein Mikro offen lassen? Da kann ja wohl keiner was dagegen haben, oder?

Harald

Also, ich hab nen Knopp, den ich drücken muss, wenn ich was sagen will am Lenkrad (WENN ich denn mal im TS bin, was verdammt selten ist). Hat auch den Vorteil, dass mein Schnauben und Husten und Nießen und vor Allem das Bierrülpsen nicht online geht!

Vor Allem das Rülpsen... naja, und ab und an das Furzen. Danach genieße ich es immer sehr, im eigenen Sud zu sitzen

Kurz zum Thema: Freunde, es ist und bleibt ein Spiel. EIN SPIEL!!!!!

Grüße
Herakles, der Hinterherfahrer

Hi Micha.

Understood at 90%, but at 100% of you want to say.
Thanks for your hard work on make all this work fine.

____________
Hi Schwiizer.

It is a great and pleasant surprise to receive your message after all this. Apologies obviously accepted.
The fact that you apologize publicly says much more.

(As you can imagine I keep my apologies of previous posts).
Thanks for seeing what really matters.
I hope to see us on track, as hard as ever and more respectful than ever.

______
Hi All.

Speaking about all this there´s something I want you all to know...
There is one group I will never take away from my deep hate: google translator and his friends, babelfish and reverso.
I must translate from deutsche to english, and in parallel, from deutsche to spanish, and then I have to compare both text to find the meaning of them, since both texts separately (english and spanish) are meaningless.

In case someone asks itself, the Spanish TS is something like a TV show of jokes. The day that stops being fun... I'll say goodbye.

_____

Thanks, just thanks.

Hi AGM

try this one, maybe works better:

for me works, I testet: probar esto, tal vez funciona mejor
http://www.etranslator.ro/german-spanish-online- translation.php

Greets hayman

edit:copy german text from forum and paste in there

hayman3030 wrote:
Hi AGM

try this one, maybe works better:

for me works, I testet: probar esto, tal vez funciona mejor
http://www.etranslator.ro/german-spanish-online- translation.php

Greets hayman

edit:copy german text from forum and paste in there

Thanks! seems to work quite fine, the problem starts with "stock phrases" and "colloquial words or expressions".

Example, try to translate this:
"Si se te va el volante yendo a saco, te estampas a la mínima.."
(It means: "If you lost control of the wheel while driving so fast, you will crash easily." )

You know what means because I have tell you, but have no sense in translators, right?

We could open a new thread to laugh at all this translation mess. XD

TY!

Wenn man den entscheidenden Satz beim Googletranslator eingibt, kommt das dabei raus:

"Wenn du die Kontrolle über das Auto verloren hast, während du so schnell fährst, wirst du leicht abstürzen"



P.S.: Schön das es euch gibt

harald,wenn dein mikro kaputt wäre...hätt ich nix gegen...

Die Sprachbarriere macht gerade Streit nicht einfacher.

Man versteht doch ganz gerne mal was falsch, vor Allem wenn die Menschen Umgangssprachlich kommunizieren.

Wir tragen beim Rennen alle Handschuhe unterschiedlicher Härte. Manche kämpfen eben etwas mehr, andere geben einfach Raum.

Mein Fahrstil hat sich mittlerweile dahingehend verändert. Leute, von denen ich denke, dass sie gerne auch etwas härter kämpfen, lasse ich einfach vorbei. Vor allem, weil mich das selten mehr als eine Platzierung kostet ... ein harter (und dann verlorener) Kampf jedoch auch am Ende des Feldes enden kann.
Genauso mache ich das bei den "Aliens", die sind einfach mal ein gutes Stück schneller als ich, aber wenn ich ohnehin nur selten länger als drei Runden mitgehen kann, dann hänge ich mich die drei Runden lieber an einen Manfred Haupenthal, Fred oder andere darn ... da habe ich meist viel mehr von

Zum Kämpfen gehört Training ... viel Training. Ich habe ein paar Jahre gebraucht, bis mich nicht mehr jeder kleine Schubser von der Strecke geschleudert hat ... mittlerweile wundere ich mich manchmal selber, WAS man bei GTL noch so alles "rumreißen" kann.

Ich fahre momentan lieber weniger agressiv. Dafür bin ich zwar selten vorne mit dabei, aber ich finde auch weitaus weniger Anlässe, mich aufzuregen.

Da vorne geht es mir oft ohnehin zu hart zu (zumindest in derersten Rennhälfte, danach hat sich das ja oft etwas aussortiert).

Wir alle sollten und vielleicht darauf besinnen, dass nicht in jedem Fahrzeug ein Ass sitzt, welches in genau der rchtigen Weise auf unseren Fahrstil reagieren kann und wird.

den letzten nochmal in english (das ist mir eigentlich am wichtigsten):
I guess, we should all acknoledge/keep in mind, that not every car is piloted by an ace, which will react in exact the way we are expecting.

Grüße/Regards
Olaf

Hi Olaf, gut gesagt, ein Beispiel meinerseits von gestern abend. In der ersten Runde Massencrash, als letzter wieder auf der Strecke, rangekämpft an den Vorletzte und beim Überholvorgang rausgedreht. Ich bin trotzdem zuende gefahren, weils mir einfach Spass macht.Es ist und bleibt doch eine Sim und eine Freizeitgestaltung.

Gruß Gregory