Greetings, chaps.

It is indeed a sad thing to request that one of your fellow Bude members be censured to the point of total and permanent exclusion but after the events of today at Rouen, I have little choice but to demand such a fate for member, Yves M.

I was subjected to multiple and totally unwarranted attacks by YM during the event. He had, evidently, mistaken me for the party that nudged him wide at Nouveau Monde on L1. Regardless of such mistaken identity, such conduct is not worthy of a member in good standing. That he involved members JReus and Moto, both totally innocent bystanders, in a subsequent shunt is inexcusable.

I have examined the replay from server #1 and draw your attention to incidents involving he and I over the 1st and 3rd laps. Specifically, observe the interaction between he and I at timiing references:

82-94
135-170
394-406

The evidence is conclusive.

I would also ask that a suspension of one full month be handed to member, Frauldabissen, for demonstrable incompentance in initiating the primary incident. This member has come to my attention previously as being a 'loose canon'.

Further, I'd like firm reprimands issued to both Pavel1 and Spross for rough driving during qualifying at the previous event on server #1, Teretonga. Both decided it was just as well to shove me out of the way as go round me.

So long, Yves.

Have a nice day.

Provocateur

Edit: Sorry. After all that, I forgot to post the replay link. It is:

www1.altbierbude.de_2008_04_02_19_57_24_Rouen_les_ Essarts.Vcr

Hi Provo,

I am probably one of a few who have taken a look at the replay and while I sympathise with what happened to you I would not say that Yves M deserves to be banned at all from the Bude.

I have never heard of or seen anything like this from YM before and I have driven with him many times as I have with you. He is a hard racer but I have found him to be fair so I think he has had some bad races previous to this and like you he was feeling quite pi**ed off with what happened and the incident caused by Frauldabissen was just the last straw.

The incident which involved JR and Moto happened where the track suddenly bottlenecks and he hit the barrier hard himself and unfortunately he bounced off and hit those two drivers quite by accident.

I am quite sure that if YM reads your thread and looks at the incident he will immediately see what he did to you was wrong and he will apologise. This sort of thing has happened to me so many times before that I have found it is far better to accept an apology if one is offered.

I had a run in with Frauldabissen at Talladega a few days ago which was far worse than what he did to you and YM. Evidently he is a Rookie and thinks he knows best. Did he say sorry for the incident? After a lot of words that I have had with him he should know he had to do this.

Pavel …yes a hard racer who does not like to admit to mistakes. Spross …I have had little to do with but I don’t think he is very aware of what is happening around him at times but during practice and qualifying, when a lot of drivers are on the server it is quite often that cars are actually invisible at times due to people popping in and out of the sessions to change cars.

All in all I think all can be mended if the drivers concerned can own up to their mistakes and say sorry to you and learn from this.

I hope to see you on the track soon.

Cheers,

Gee-Deeman

Hiho, G-D!

Thanks for taking the time to review the replay and making comments.

Well, perhaps a call for an outright ban is a little strong. I've mellowed out a bit over the hours since this incident but a fitting punishment is justified nonetheless. Such conduct must be dealt with firmly.

Yves M engaged in retaliation against another member for accidental contact and didn't even bother to correctly identify the right party responsible, Frauldabissen. And it wasn't like he was pounded off the road with bags of time lost. He just got a nudge off the line and dropped several spots only. Christ only knows what he would have done if he'd really been worked over. LOL!

He clearly needs to chill out and a one-month suspension would go a long way to accomplishing that.

He can't be unaware that this thread has come up. If not checking for himself, he would have heard about it via the grapevine by now. He hasn't even got the balls to come in here and fess up.

I bothered to take a look at the Replay and i totally agree with Provo.

Hi Provo,

Yes chilling out helps smooth those ruffled feathers. I think we are all guilty at some point or other of blaming the wrong person for an accident. I know I have done it often enough.

Maybe YM doesn't read the forum, not all do and I can't remember seeing any forum input from him. I am still waiting for replies to forum posts and PM's to the same person(s) from months and months ago yet these same people are quick enough to retaliate when you do something wrong. I just keep an eye on them but they don't get the respect that they could earn from me.

At the moment there are a lot of new drivers buzzing around the Bude and some just don't have a clue that there are rules or that this is a Simulation game and not an arcade shoot em'up. This has created a lot of extra stress for those who come to race like gentlemen here so some drivers are acting out of character and giving it the WTF no one cares any more attitude and it leads to very frustrating racing!

I know the guys on the Bude Admin have lots to do and they do a really fantastic job for us but we very rarely have a server actually present that we can complain to about our problems. Just having someone there capable of kicking players from the game is quite often all you need without actually kicking anybody. Most players do not want to get involved in arguments or kicking anybody so nothing happens to offenders as a rule. But when the servers are present departure for the bad drivers is swift.

Until we get a better system we just have to keep chiseling away at the bad boys.

Cheers.

Gee-Deeman

All you can do is,annoyance you.
Nothin will happen if any driver push another driver from Track.
You can wait and wreck all drivers,no ban will follow.
You have luck if you are not accused of to have such a thing done from this person.
I remember at bronze bullet,he wait and wrecked me 4times and nothing is happened

cheers
Maze

stimmt nicht maze , schau dir das replay nochmal genau an .

ihr habt euch beide nichts geschenkt und du hast angefangen .

wenn du das schon wieder aufwärmen musst

I just watched the replay. I had a couple of races with Yves and I thought that he's a fair driver. This replay surprised me.

Maybe he had a bad day at work yesterday, maybe he had problems with his girlfriend: I think he deserves another chance.

Fraubadass (or anything his name is) is more dangerous, but he's a rookie.

Hmm, I watched the replay too and I-m astonished a little bit.
Yes I had an accident in timeline 80-92. I think it's not difficult to see that i lost control of my car and crashed into the others. I think it's not difficult to see that I kept the Bude Rules in mind an waited for the involved cars on the side of the track and let them pass. I don't remeber if i said "sorry" but I think i did it.
Now i don't what i had to do further?
If you want to ban all players who did mistakes with car handling and loose control of their cars I whish much fun to you with a cowd of 5 to 10 racers on your servers. For all rookies it seems to be better to stay out of your tracks, because all what they do is wrong. If you are slow the profs fret about because you prevent their laptimes. If you try to drive faster, sometimes you lost control and accidents are unavoidable. Maybe you'll be banned for that
To bounce a slow car seems to be normal, also from the really good drivers. A fast klick on the "Sorry" shortcut and they are far away. If a slow car bounce a fast one there will be a big shouting about incompetence, server rules and so on.
It's frustrating. I don't know what to do.
My motivation to drive GTL was my love to old cars of the 60s and having fun in online races. For now I capitulated to drive the 60s cars because you doomed with this cars when you still learn to drive and the capris and 911s driving cicles around you. So i try it with faster cars and easier handling to keep up with the others but of course it needs time to get better.

And yes I know there is a rookie club and i also know the driving guides and setup tips

I hope rookies are still welcome on altbierbude. Otherwise you should think about how much time it needs the game will pass away because there will be no new drivers and the old ones leave step by step.

I'm sorry for all mistakes I did on the tracks and my bad english in this posting.

And at last I found this thread by pure chace. I think it woul be courteous to send a PM to the person you are talk about

Just my 2 Cents.

Hi Frauldabissen,

The rules for motor racing and Sim racing are simple and based on common sense. The basic rule here as I have already told you is that when you knock someone from the track you say sorry and wait for them to rejoin in front of you.

Why do we have this simple rule ...well, if everyone just smashed into people and did not wait then you would think that the driver did it on purpose to gain a place. That driver could keep doing that until he or she won ...would that be right?

Saying sorry shows that you made a mistake and waiting for the driver to rejoin in front also shows that the crash was an accident.

In real life when racing there are the stewards who would penalise drivers for bad mistakes. On GTL we only have the person involved in the accident. So what should an innocent victim do if he is hit and there is no sorry or waiting?

On the English version of the Bude Home page it is writen thus: "THE rule: if you crash into car in front of you - WAIT and let him by!" & also "If drivers are respectful & courteous to each other racing will be much more fun!"

Manners cost nothing and had they been used by you in the first place when you slid off the track by accident and hit YM then he would have porbably realised it was your fault and not Provocatur's and the matter would quite simplty have ended there!

Sorry is such a small word but look at all the words that have now been used just because it was not said. Better your time was spent learning.

We have had some coming together's just recently and you blamed everyone else but yourself for them when there was no one else around ...I still have that replay if you wish to argue about that!

All of us more experienced drivers will respect and tollerate slow and bad driving as long as you Rookies will learn the rules and driving skills and show manners & respect to us when you are told you are in the wrong.

Cheers for the lend of your ears.

Gee-Deeman

Geedee schrieb:
Hi Frauldabissen,

The rules for motor racing and Sim racing are simple and based on common sense. The basic rule here as I have already told you is that when you knock someone from the track you say sorry and wait for them to rejoin in front of you.

Why do we have this simple rule ...well, if everyone just smashed into people and did not wait then you would think that the driver did it on purpose to gain a place. That driver could keep doing that until he or she won ...would that be right?

I can only repeat.
Yes I read and understand the rules and yes i made the crash and yes I said sorry (now I'm sure)and yes i wait for the drivers I constrain.

Maybe i have a problem to understand your words but I think there was nothing more to do beside suicide.

I want to thank Frauldabissen for having the guts and courtesy to come in to this thread and respond.

While I was pretty steamed at the time of this regretable incident and posted the initial entry while still exhibiting a high degree of anger, I've since calmed down and now retract my suggestion of a one-month suspension on Frauldabissen due to rough and suspect driving. (My initial request was not based exclusively on this Rouen caper but also on some other observations as G-D has commented upon, btw) However, being forthright in responding has raised your stock in my eyes and shall not pursue any retribution off or on the track. I would ask that you excercise more care and judgement in the future, tho.

As for Yves M, he has yet to acknowledge his part in this affair and it would seem is unlikely to do so. I've come to accept that as well. In fact, he and I were on the same Virginia server on Thursday and nought a word came from him re the furor. So much for his awareness and character. I did not come across him during the entire meet. If our paths cross in future and he again displays anything even remotely similar to the disgusting display he commited at Rouen, I will move for his dismal from the club with a motion of, 'It's him or me. Who goes?' I'm here to enjoy good simulated car racing with fellows of like mind. I'm not here to be the target of boneheaded flunkies. (Teehee. After just 6 laps of Virginia, he was fully 30 seconds down to me. Atta boy, YM! )

Again, thanks to G-D for offering his commentary here. On another score entirely, I must send you a PM re the Sausage league. I've dl'd most if not all the cars but at this point, am not sure how to install them for the Tuesday events.

Provo