MichaW schrieb:
As a reminder...

We are not a league, we are Altbierbude and we have never been interested in how leagues are run. We make our own rules. Friendly, Together, Unforced (to any leagues rules)

Glück auf!

Ok I agree with the latter. I would like to be sure that I am complying with those standards.
Some of my overtaking attempts in Macau were aggressive, but it's Macau and I just waited for my opponent's failure. However, the way of defending the position I think was unnatural, on 3 occasions, with forced trajectories that made me touch the wall.

https://youtu.be/TebVhb9pmLU?t=4870

I would like to hear opinions about this particular case ...

MichaW schrieb:
We are not a league...
... We make our own rules.

Call it community, league, banana... But its a friendly group on wich must be some rules.

I'm not telling to write a 1500 doctoral thesis but a tiny page of certain rules that are tipically cause of confrontation could be a easy solution to the most of racing issues.

Subjectivity is built from objectivity, but without written patterns it is impossible to establish an objectivity.
Knowing constant incidents, its maybe sound too serious to you, but far from that its the way to construct a friendly community.

Friendly without written rules (or unique rule) sounds as beauty as utopian

No overtake unless you have front tyre with front tyre? Write it (not in the forum, but in a "abb racing basic rules" section) not for us but for the
for the majority who dont read the forum but even for those (including me) who do but in order not to forget what is the way to do things properly and thus drive more friendly racing.

Nothing causes more controversy than ignorance, therefore, nothing gives more room for agreement than knowledge.

[DTR]_sHaGGy schrieb:
MichaW schrieb:
As a reminder...

We are not a league, we are Altbierbude and we have never been interested in how leagues are run. We make our own rules. Friendly, Together, Unforced (to any leagues rules)

Glück auf!

Ok I agree with the latter. I would like to be sure that I am complying with those standards.
Some of my overtaking attempts in Macau were aggressive, but it's Macau and I just waited for my opponent's failure. However, the way of defending the position I think was unnatural, on 3 occasions, with forced trajectories that made me touch the wall.

https://youtu.be/TebVhb9pmLU?t=4870

I would like to hear opinions about this particular case ...


One of the tightest spots in Macau, I just don't try it there. The overtaking attempt can only work if the Porsche opens up to prevent an accident. And that's exactly what the Simca is speculating on. And that's exactly the kind of maneuver we don't want. There are a few places in Macau where I can try it, but these Esses are not one of them. And I know it's difficult to be patient when you could actually go faster. But even so, in the 12 laps that I was stuck behind Thomas in the Porsche, I would never have thought of pulling in like that.
And that's exactly what everyone should do.

IMHO

Glück auf!

Hi Leute :o)

Das beispiel mit mir und Dimitar:

Schaut mal nach dem bums wo Dimitar landet,
nämlich genau auf meiner Linie und warum, weil er zu
schnell war, für ganz ihnen.
Und genau das meinen manche mit zu agressiven
Überholen.
Wartet Dimitar bis zu einer besseren Stelle
kommt er ohne Probleme vorbei und mein Rennen
ist nicht schon vorbei.

Ist eigentlich kein klares Beispiel, da gibt es viel
Klare Beispiele.

Gruss Wiege

Bordi schrieb:


Ihr arbeitet damit nur an noch mehr Regeln und Beschränkungen anstelle das miteinander zu genießen.


Again:

Nothing causes more controversy than ignorance, therefore, nothing gives more room for agreement than knowledge (written rules!)

According to the rules, the white car should have braked and let the blue car take the ideal line.

BIG SORRY, MY MISTAKE

i was at time 1.24.6 not at 1.26.4

This situation is right the white car the car in front.



Edit sagt:
und bitte keinen Stress, man kann über alles diskutieren. streiten bringt da nichts außer schlechte Laune.

Hi,

byagm schrieb:
[b]

Again:

Nothing causes more controversy than ignorance, therefore, nothing gives more room for agreement than knowledge (written rules!)

complete agree - fine

See the top of our homepage!
See the words of Micha above!
And see the rules agreement in the last thread to this topic. (Manfred gives good examples above)

The rest is for the stewards

greets

Reinhold

Hello,
I thought about it wether to answer or not.
When I was flying fighter aircraft as a profession (and trust me, we all were extremely agressive, trained to fight & win) we had a saying / a rule:

" ... if in doubt, then stay out"

Same behaviour rule can be applied for racing (but you have to be honest to yourself!).

If there is only a small doubt in your mind, a small feeling that it might spoil your own race or endager the race of your opponent-friend (we should all be friends here)... then don't do the move no matter if you are defending or attacking.

But...
This only works, if BOTH have the same mindset. This is also what the Bude- Rules imply.
Lets enjoy more the fight, not the overtaking move or one better place at the end.

I was defending droker in Macau, we had a great battle, we both had fun, fairness and the faster guy (droker) ended in front because of fairness & patience... and both finished.

Let's have fun and not fight for our lives on a virtual race track.

We neither earn more money nor more fame if we battle each other too hard, but we gain so much more with fairness and respect.
This is probably one of the keys for the Altbiebude's long-time success with so many great friends here.

Did I sound like a preacher? ... I hope not. Just another view of an old man.

Genleman, start your engines
Wolfgang

rdjango wrote:
Hi,

byagm schrieb:
[b]

Again:

Nothing causes more controversy than ignorance, therefore, nothing gives more room for agreement than knowledge (written rules!)

complete agree - fine

See the top of our homepage!
See the words of Micha above!
And see the rules agreement in the last thread to this topic. (Manfred gives good examples above)

The rest is for the stewards

greets

Reinhold

Edit: more smileis to show less seriousness.

Facepalm...

"There is no more blind than the one who does not want to see."

So, you get only the part that you want to listen.



________________________________________

No rules = controversy.

Understand just if you want. Keep the utopic "friendly but nobody know exactly how to drive" (including me) and problems will rise, never go down.

Seriously, so much trauma would mean establishing basic driving rules to avoid problems? it is just to write 10 common situations and indicate your situation.

Michaw himself has already indicated that there are particular rules here. Ok, please, make it clear to everyone, those of us who read the forum and those who don't. We cannot go around compiling information on brush strokes that have appeared on the forum. (or do we?)

Da bin ick dabei dit is priihiima

In Fragen unangebrachter Agressivität hab auch ich ,Zweifels ohne, meine Geschichte hier. Liga Betrieb kenne ich auch. Regularien aus der aktuellen Formel 1 sind hier nicht passend


Wie lange existiert die ABB?
Hat es bei den vielen Fahrern bisher spezielle Regeln bezüglich des Benehmens bei Überholvorgängen benötigt? Nö…

Wenn 20 Leute empfinden das 1 Person zu hart fährt ist die Sache eigentlich klar, oder?

Hello AGM

that was not friendly - metoo perhaps ...

I could say the same to you - but that doesnt help anyway.

We have respect the written rules here seen on top.
And the rules we diskuss here over years over and over again seems to be clear for most of us in the meantime - see above.

So if you wanna get it written as a rule - try it. Make a suggestion in the forum. We can discuss it and may be the Admins will place it on prominent place for all - or not, dont know.

So make a try.

Edit means the shorter the better.

Ich habs nicht böse gemeint und wollte auch keine Regeln hier einführen, sie sollten nur als Beispiel dienen

Ich konnte nicht ahnen, dass die Fronten so verhärtet sind.

zapata schrieb:
Hello,
I thought about it wether to answer or not.
When I was flying fighter aircraft as a profession (and trust me, we all were extremely agressive, trained to fight & win) we had a saying / a rule:

" ... if in doubt, then stay out"


I think this is great advice that I will follow when flying fighter jets. It's a joke.

MichaW schrieb:
[DTR]_sHaGGy schrieb:
MichaW schrieb:
As a reminder...

We are not a league, we are Altbierbude and we have never been interested in how leagues are run. We make our own rules. Friendly, Together, Unforced (to any leagues rules)

Glück auf!

Ok I agree with the latter. I would like to be sure that I am complying with those standards.
Some of my overtaking attempts in Macau were aggressive, but it's Macau and I just waited for my opponent's failure. However, the way of defending the position I think was unnatural, on 3 occasions, with forced trajectories that made me touch the wall.

https://youtu.be/TebVhb9pmLU?t=4870

I would like to hear opinions about this particular case ...


One of the tightest spots in Macau, I just don't try it there. The overtaking attempt can only work if the Porsche opens up to prevent an accident. And that's exactly what the Simca is speculating on. And that's exactly the kind of maneuver we don't want. There are a few places in Macau where I can try it, but these Esses are not one of them. And I know it's difficult to be patient when you could actually go faster. But even so, in the 12 laps that I was stuck behind Thomas in the Porsche, I would never have thought of pulling in like that.
And that's exactly what everyone should do.

IMHO

Glück auf!

I understand your opinion. I respect her, I think it's the way to a future full of boring racing hahahaha.

Now seriously. Tried 2 overtaking in 10 laps. Both times my car stopped after a small mistake by the other driver. What else is needed for a clean overtaking? There was room for 2 cars. My line was clean, however Bernd modifies his usual line to cut the pace. Do you think I have no eyes? Only when he is overcome does he trace his direction towards the wall.

These actions cannot be defended with rules, it is a problem of attitude, a problem of those who do not want to be overtake under any circumstances.

It is not the site, it is not the circuit, it is not the rules, it is the people: the same site other people:
https://youtu.be/TebVhb9pmLU?t=4489

t's my humble opinion.

Silent Hunter schrieb:

Wenn 20 Leute empfinden das 1 Person zu hart fährt ist die Sache eigentlich klar, oder?

- mode evil on -

I see the fly in your avatar and I think: all the flies in the world can not be wrong, one day we will have to try shit.

I only say this: "Your aggressiveness will one day turn against yourself"... or "Don't turn your car into a weapon... the victim could be yourself" ! The world spins too fast ...

Hey boys,
take a deep breath,
calm down a bit,
drive a few laps.

this is not about who has the longest.
We all just want to drive, don't we?

clam down and come together.

Molleri schrieb:
I only say this: "Your aggressiveness will one day turn against yourself"... or "Don't turn your car into a weapon... the victim could be yourself" ! The world spins too fast ...


it's true ... but what turned really fast was your car looking for the box.

Hi, Servus,

Die ABB gibt es schon so lange und meist auch ziemlich stressfrei.

DER Grund dafür ist ganz klar das grundlegende Motto der grünen Bude:

miteinander - freundlich - ungebunden.

Die meisten kapieren und vor allem respektieren dies auch.

Wer das nicht kann und/oder will, muss hier ja nicht fahren.
Es gibt genügend anderes an Möglichkeiten im Netz.


Andi

Einfaches Statement von mir, falls der Thread hier noch aktiv sein sollte:
1. Sind Regeln generell gut, wenn sie alle beachten
2. Sind Regeln dafür da übermäßiges oder unangebrachtes Verhalten einzudämmen.
3. Machen Regeln sinn, wenn es ohne absolut nicht geht.
4. Ist eine Regel oder eine Anweisung nicht unbedingt immer rein schriftliches Dokument sondern auch ein Resultat aus der Reaktion einer Vielzahl von Menschen
5. Werden Regeln aufgestellt muss es Gremien geben die die Einhaltung kontrollieren.
6. Müssen Regeln im Verhältnis zum möglich Machbaren stehen.

Ich fasse man zusammen.

Alles das unten aufgeführte ist auf eine Handvoll Situationen zurückzuführen bei denen schnellere auf langsamere Fahrer in z.b. Macau getroffen sind.
Wir sind alles bloß Menschen. Und nur weil es dann ein 10 Sätze Handbuch zum Thema überholen gibt wird es mit Sicherheit nicht besser.
Na klar werden dann ein paar Fahrer Recht bekommen nach dem Rennen das etwas unfair oder zu hart abging aber wer sagt dass es dadurch dauerhaft besser wird, außer dass ggf. Die Teilnehmer so weit sinken dass nur noch eine Handvoll Fahrer unterwegs sind.

Ich bin da für eine einfache Weisung. Belegt einen Satz mit einer schnelltaste: Achtung ich überhole jetzt. Und jedesmal wenn man ansetzt drückt man die. Und schon ist der Vordermann vielleicht bereit mehr Platz zu lassen.

LG Tobias

sHaGGy schrieb

Ich würde gerne Meinungen zu diesem speziellen Fall hören ...

Meine Meinung dazu kurz und knapp.

Wenn du Rundenlang hinter mir her fährst, mal mit mehr und mal mit weniger Abstand und ständig Lichthupe betätigst, erwartest du etwa das ich auf die Seite fahre und dich vorbei lasse.
Wenn du zu ungeduldig bist ist das dein Problem.
Ich habe mit Sicherheit nicht absichtlich geblockt, nur meine Linie gehalten, so gut es ging.
Ich hab mir nichts zuschulden kommen und damit ist das Thema für mich erledigt.

Gruß Bernd

HamannRacing schrieb:


Ich bin da für eine einfache Weisung. Belegt einen Satz mit einer schnelltaste: Achtung ich überhole jetzt. Und jedesmal wenn man ansetzt drückt man die. Und schon ist der Vordermann vielleicht bereit mehr Platz zu lassen.

LG Tobias

Meine Liebe, bitte nicht!
1. Noch mehr Chat ist sehr schlecht für Konzentration
2. Es ist doch Rennen? Da reden die doch nicht mit einander wo und wann einer überholen will? Und dann noch, der Vordermann hällt seine Linie oder macht Platz wo und wann es geht. (in TS wird oft Info gegeben über Passing und wer deas zusammen will, mach es, aber Ich mag es nicht. )

Blitzbote schrieb:


Ich habe mit Sicherheit nicht absichtlich geblockt, nur meine Linie gehalten, so gut es ging.


Nobody has said you did it on purpose (I think), just that we have seen less abrupt defense maneuvers that have been much more criticized.

So with all this info I have what I wanted, I have learn how to not atack, but above all how to deffend. Thanks for the advices and lessons.
Honestly, specially to Marco who has been the best objetive info with included documentation.

@Andi, thanks for the invitation, I love that community admins that come to fight for the unity of the community. In my case I'm good at the moment here thanks to the people who agree or disagree but respect me. I preffer this more than BasKKet or FUtBBall. Thanks anyway.

Hiho

Please all just read what Wolfgang/zapata has written about this. More does not have to be said about it. If everyone takes this to heart and keeps it in mind, then we can all have a lot of fun together. And maybe we can just end the topic with that? It just makes me tired...

Glück auf!